Well... as we all know Obama won.... did America win though??
What do you feel about Barack Obama being elected as President of the United States? I know there are different opinions about it...
In my case ... I felt sick yesterday when I heard the news.... I know we have to trust God with it... so ... I have much praying to do...
So, please post your thoughts here.... I want to know how most of my friends, contacts and whoever reads this blog feels about Obama winning...
In my case I can say: "Help us Lord!"
(Special message for the c-moms: if you already gave your opinion in the forums, feel free to copy&paste it here, I would like some of my other contacts to read about it and give their opinion too)
Paloma.
Posts
21 comments:
It makes me feel very uneasy. I know so little about him and alot of what I do know, I don't like. I hate to think about the direction the country is going to go in now. I will be prayfully watching in the days ahead. May God's will be done.
My MIL is going to be paying for all of our kids to get a passport and I'll pay for my own. We are worried over here because we feel sure that persecution of Jews and Christians is soon to come here in America. Our rights will be stripped and our children will be prey. We are considering a move to Israel more seriously than we ever have. It's where Jews are supposed to flee to (Biblically) when they face persecution. And since dh and the kids are of Jewish blood... our family is Jew... we may have to go to our safe haven. I really hope that this doesn't have to happen. But it's better to be prepared for such things. I know that we can't stop prophecy from coming to pass, but this is so hard watching America become so corrupt.
I will definitely continue to pray for Obama. But I feel saddened and worried that so many Christians have been blinded by his charisma. (sigh) I think that he means well... but he's seriously misguided and decieved on so many issues that we as Christians should be standing strong in the values of the Lord on.
One sad thing for me is seeing just how racially divided America still is. What I mean by that is... I feel like so many Christians voted for Obama because he was black... ignoring their faith based values all for the sake of "changing" our standing. Trying to get my familly to view the election objectively and unbaised was an exercise in futility. I just wish that they would have put aside the worldly value of race and allowed the Lord to show them through His eyes. I was nearly moved to rage when my mother called me this morning to gloat and I'm sick of the text messages that I'm getting like "They wouldn't give us 40 acres and a mule, so we took 50 states and the white house... GOBama!" Racism is racism no matter what color it's against. And this type of racism and unforgiveness has allowed so many black Christians to be stuck and unable to grow in the Lord. I just wish that the color of our skin wouldn't have been the factor that decieved so many into falling into sin. There comes a time when you have to chose... Jesus or black advancement in America? Why is running around shouting "black power" any better than running around shouting "white power"? Ugh. I'm utterly disgusted within my soul. What a sad state our country is in.
I understand that God allowed Obama to be president. But I also have to wonder if He allowed it because His patience is already exausted. I'm sick of Christians not standing up, not choosing God and what He stands for..... Obama is so left wing that he's almost backwards. He sickens me like a dog that eats his own vomit.
God may be watching, but what scares me is if He has removed His hand of protection from our country. We will find out over the next 4 years, which is a long time....
I believe God loves His children and will protect us from certain things, but I also know that when King David went against Gods orders, thousand and thousands were killed because of his one decision. If there is one thing that I have learned as a Adult and Christian is : your choice doesn't just effect you, it is a ripple effect.
I believe that America will be brought to her knees, not necessarily now but I think Obama is a stepping stone towards that happening.
Ok I deleted my previous comment because I wrote: "I couldn't agree with you" and I meant "I couldn't agree more with you"
so... Shannon... I couldn't agree more with you... and the rest of the ladies who have posted their comments here... I see it the same way...
I can't wait for Josh (my husband) to comment ... if he still feels like it....
Hugs!
Paloma.
I'm grateful Obama was elected.
For one, he's anti-abortion and wants to put programs into place that reduce the need for them. The Bush years, despite his convictions, actually resulted in an increase the amount of abortions. While I don't mean to blame Bush, his presidency didn't help.
I've seen so much fear in the posts of my evangelical friends regarding our president. One big fear is socialism. I guess I don't get it. We have a socialized police force and no one complains. We have a socialized education system and, while there is room for improvement, no one is advocating a privatized solution.
Perhaps I'm ignorant as a result of the media and my residence in Chicago. From my perspective, though, I've paid more attention to and gathered more information about this election than any prior and have voted Republican in past elections.
I'm prayerful for our president, his cabinet, and our government in general. Given it's only day two, though, I don't think the concern is warranted.
(Shannon - I appreciate your comments about folks who voted for Obama exclusively because of his race and not his policies. That seems pretty ridiculous.)
I am sad over this election. I too feel that many Christians have been blinded by his charisma rather than his actual views. I also think the main stream media had an impact on a large number of voters because they did not question anything about Barrack Obama. The country seemed to be destined for the election to turn out the way it did, just as the law of gravity says that what goes up must come down.
It sickens me to think about his views on pregnancy. I would hate to think that my husband would say he would not wnat our daughter weighed down by an unplanned pregnancy. When did our country start thinking babies are a curse and debt is something that should be rewarded (i.e. the wall street bailout. I know everyone of our 4 children are a blessing from God.
I was really frustrated at first, and now I just feel not "as ease" about it, but then its reminding me that we should never feel "at ease" in this world if we are Christians, and maybe we needed that reminder.
The division amoung the Church over this election really greived me. See, God cannot be divided, so when His followers were praying for direction in their voting half of them didn't listen - and that's scary. The American Church today is so lost and I wrote about this all in a note on my facebook on the eve of the election.
Not all leaders are ordaned by God - but God "allows" leaders to come to power and he will use them all for his purpose but that doesn't always mean being used positively.
We need to join together and build up the Church again. The Church in America needs to grow stronger and stop allowing ourselves to be pushed under for political correctness. We need to pray for our leader, but we also need to band together and cause change instead of waiting for our government to do everything - that is not at all the Biblical model God gave us.
Umm.. Karl not to shock you but Obama's voting record is 100% pro-abortion. As a matter of fact, he co-sponsored one of the largest legislative bills to support abortions for any reason, at ANY time during the pregnancy, and to use tax payer funded dollars to pay for peoples abortions.
savedbygrace - Too sleepy for a lenthy discussion except this: Obama voted pro-choice - that's not necessarily the same as pro-abortion. He made it clear in one of the main debates that he's not for abortion and wants to reduce abortions.
With an infant here .... I am even sleepier...
But Obama is not anti-abortion...
but... zzzzzz ... see you later....
Good morning bloggers! :) Here's what I heard Obama say regarding abortion:
"But there surely is some common ground when both those who believe in choice and those who are opposed to abortion can come together and say, "We should try to prevent unintended pregnancies by providing appropriate education to our youth, communicating that sexuality is sacred and that they should not be engaged in cavalier activity, and providing options for adoption, and helping single mothers if they want to choose to keep the baby."
Those are all things that we put in the Democratic platform for the first time this year, and I think that's where we can find some common ground, because nobody's pro-abortion. I think it's always a tragic situation." (You can read the whole abortion portion of the debate here: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/oct/08101601.html)
In summary, Obama wants to teach good stuff about knocking boots, provide alternatives to abortion, encourage adoption, believes there should be a complete ban on partial-birth abortions (see entire script), and is not pro-abortion. I get the idea abortion doesn't exactly delight him. And while I think Paloma is right that he's not definitively anti-abortion, the only exception I see is for the mother's life (see script) which seems to be about the same thing - life.
I voted for Bush in previous elections, in part because of his stance on abortion. However, after 8 years in office Roe vs. Wade still exists and abortions have not decreased. Also, while McCain did say Roe vs. Wade was a bad decision, he also said the decision should be "rest in the hands of the states." Frankly - I'm not confident things would have been be better with him. It's said that a crazy person does the same thing multiple time expecting different results.
I'm not usually very politically minded and have voted democrat and republican before. I'm open to being swayed.
Paloma - appreciate the dialogue.
Ok... here is this link (provided by savedbygrace)
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm
Karl:
When you said: the only exception I see is for the mother's life (see script) which seems to be about the same thing - life.
All I can say is HUH!!!???
Last comment:
Karl... if I don't agree with people "killing you" (I hope you don't get upset... it's just an example and I just want to show it very clearly)
so... I don't want people killing Karl.... but I think they have the right to decide whether or not to kill you .... is that ok?
am I really against people killing you?
I know this example might not make sense... since is not equal to killing a baby... because you have more chances to defend yourself.... a baby has none.
--------
Ok.... :)
Nothing against you Karl... I just wanted to show how if it was YOU the person "involved" you wouldn't like it...
Thank God you have the chance to discuss here right now... Thank God we all do... Because our parents didn't choose differently, they knew it wasn't their CHOICE.... IF God put life in a womb... who are we to destroy it?...
I know either if it's legal or not people are going to continue killing babies (which is atrocious) but... At least it shouldn't be "Legal" and like if the "victims" were the "mothers" (that is a big word for a woman who wants to kill a baby)
I don't know...
Ok... I will stop now... MY BABY needs me... And even if my life had been at risk... I surely would've just trusted God and never decided to KILL her to save my life... If I was to die... I don't see a better way than giving my life for my daughter's
and well... I think it's not even worth to discuss so much more about it... what do you think? He was elected already and the results will be seen....
God is still in control...
Hugs!
Paloma.
Sorry, the link didn't appear complete...
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/
Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm
Paloma - I take no offense at your examples and appreciate your clear, compassionate, and respectful presentation.
Don't get me wrong - I'm pro-life, as is my wife.
My point is that based on the fact that Roe vs. Wade is unlikely to be overturned, even with a Republican president (there have been three since RvW and nothing has changed). As such when voting the RvW wasn't so much a factor for me. My concern was which candidate would reduce abortions, and based on what I saw/heard/read I think Obama will perform. Obama doesn't like abortions (unless you're sick no one really does) and plans to provide programs to reduce them.
I also think Christians rely on the government too much to do their work. Our church community group, for instance, is getting connected with family assistance programs in Chicago. In a week or so we are having a baby shower for some single mothers. An awesome experience for folks, Christian and non-Christian, to experience the love and care of Christ for them and their children.
As you said, the election is over, and we will have to see what the result is over time. Obama may fail, or the system may fail regardless of Obama. In the meantime I think its fruitful to ask ourselves how we are working to promote life for people of every age.
Karl
Karl, so far I've only seen you use Obama's own rhetoric to defend your position, and we all know that what a person says and does is often very different. Abortion is a subject near and dear to my heart, you see, I was suppose to be aborted. My mother was older when I was born and the doctors told her I would be a special needs child or deformed if she cared me to full term, but at the last second my mother chose otherwise, and obviously I was born a completely healthy baby.
I've researched this point, and many of the other policies that both candidates were for dogedly, not just looking for facts that supported what I wanted to hear, but from both liberal and conservation experts. I join Paloma is saying that I have a hard time seeing why any Christian voted for Obama, I think sadly a lot of people got caught up in the hype of pretty speech and a charasmatic personality then actual basis their choice on Biblical teaching. I do not mean this as an attack at all, a lot of this is my own frustrations with many believing friends. I completely agree with a lot of the things you said about the church stepping up and helping people, that's one of my biggest soapbox. But for now, can we look at some facts about the abortion conflict?
I'm getting kind of sick of this line that "with a president who was against abortion nothing happened." Everyone continues to parrot this quote from Obama which he said as an answer to a question and it feels like none of the people voting for him seemed to think to do any research to see if this was fact, or just more rhetoric.
There have been more than 300,000 less abortions in the past 8 years then there was in the 8 years prior. I don't know about you, but I consider 300,000 people living today as significant progress. Also, Bush banned all government money going to stem cell/embro research - thus saving countless embros from research. As a Christian I believe those to be God given lives and I believe that to be a significant gain in the battle for life at the hands of a anti-abortion president.
People say "Obama isn't pro-abortion." Really? Then why when talking to Planned Parenthood did he say that one of his first things he will do as president will be to sign the Freedom of Choice Act? This Act repeals all state laws about abortion. If he signs this Act that means in states where parent notification is a law, where there is a 30 day wait period before getting an abortion, and in states that ban partial birth abortion - these laws would all no longer be in effect. Sure doesn't sound like someone who wants to make sure that there are less unwanted pregnancies, sounds more to me like he wants to make sure the doors are wide open to anyone seeking an abortion. I got so frustrated with people just listening to his polished speechs instead of looking at what his voting record has been, and what/who he has yoked himself with in the past. He has openly come out and said he is and will continue to be a strong supporter and partner of Planned Parenthood -and if you know about the founding of and the mission of Planned Parenthood then you know how trully twisted this all is.
Also Obama said he will repeal Bush's ban on government money for stem cell research. This means hundreds of thousands of embros open to experimentation on the government tab. Which means, you and I get to pay for this wholesale murder now - aren't you glad Obama is so pro-life!
Wait, it's not that he's pro-abortion, he's just pro-choice right? I guess that makes it sound not so horrible. I wonder how many believers a century ago thought 'I would never own a slave, but others should have a choice'. Some things are so evil we should not support even the right of others to practice it.
Sadly, many of my Christian friends didn't take abortion into the equasion when they voted. They seem tired of the abortion issue and they said that if Bush, a man against abortion, didn't turn Roe vs. Wade then there is no point in thinking that it ever could change. They have accepted abortion as a norm in our society and that nothing can be done to stop it. I'm sure that Christians in Rome thought the same thing about the gladiator competitions, but it only took one determined Christian to take a stand to completely end the gladitor fights (if you don't know that history, look it up, it'll make even the toughest person cry).
I guess I just don't have it in me to look God in the eye and tell Him that I think He lacks the power to put an end to abortions in America, that somehow the government setup in America is beyond God's control. I refuse to say God can't do it, so I will continue to use any influence I can to fight for His values.
J,
Appreciate your comments. A few questions:
1. Can you provide the sources to the stats on abortion? Ideally something correlating the decrease in abortions to Bush's policies/actions. I had read some indicating the opposite and want to check my information. While I don't think you're attacking me, and I can't go against your personal experience, most Obama supporters I know actually looked well into the issues.
2. You mentioned Obama wants to reverse bans against partial birth abortion. He is actually against it (http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/oct/08101601.html). Am I missing something.
Please don't misunderstand me - I think abortion should be illegal. But McCain stated he wanted it to be a State issue. Then, instead of attacking one law, we would have to attack 50 laws - making it a little more difficult. Perhaps neither candidate was a good option.
Since this post may go away (not sure how blogger.com works) feel free to email me at karlostroski@yahoo.com.
My question is: If Obama couldn't make a difference in IL area how is he going to make a change in American. His county had some of the highest taxes in the nation!!! Crime in the Chi-town area is outrageous. and so is the number of unplanned teen pregnancies.
Good morning bloggers!
:)
I was asking Josh last night if Karl and J. know each other and he said "NO" wow! I thought you did! .... :) ... You should be friends or something... I am really happy you are posting here... (and the rest too!)
I realize that we (as Christians) all want the same... the abortions to be reduced.... that at least is "common ground" and is something I can see in every post... We should pray that whoever is President God does something to stop the killing of babies... We can also trust this:
"The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD; he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases." Prov. 21:1 ...
For most of us Christians, we don't like that in Obama's heart there is even the "thought" that abortion is a "choice" .... no matter what the "source is" we all agree that he "contemplates it as something that in certain cases is justified".... and that is of course scary (independently of his plans to reduce abortions -which I personally don't believe in) ....
But we should all (including me, even when I forget sometimes) that God can do ANYTHING... and "change the king's heart" ... So ... like we here seem to agree in something (abortions to end!) we should be praying even more for it.... Whether if we agree or not in Obama being the next President... (which there is nothing we can do about it anymore)
=sigh=
Beyond that.... we won't see Karl saying: "Oops! I didn't know!" or J. or Savedbygrace, tammy, shannon, patti or me say: "Wow! Thanks for opening our eyes Karl, we are happy now"
None of us will say that, at least those of us who think he is wrong... because no matter what he says his plans are .... just knowing that in his heart he would consider "killing a baby" as an option.... that is ALREADY ATROCIOUS.... and lets us see the type of man he REALLY is and should make everybody wonder... "will he really care about OUR lives?"
So, Let's stick together in those things that we agree in... We don't want more abortions... (right Karl?) ... so, let's pray God moves the king's heart)
Hugs!
Paloma.
Buena palabra, Paloma!
Update from Obama on abortion reduction: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-faith-based5-2009feb05,0,1591409.story.
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